Friendships & Vulnerability
Today’s episode is all about vulnerability, and how it’s part of my secret sauce to a deep and meaningful friendship. I chat about the joy of meeting my besties at Jack Astors, and also share a meaningful message I received from a close friend on last week’s episode (spoiler: it will help you feel better about your current friend pauses). I share some of the reasons why being vulnerable comes easy to me, including not drinking alcohol for about 8 years and how my primary friend group was my amazing Mormon friends. I also talk about Pamela Anderson’s new documentary, “Pamela, A Love Story” and one of my favourite people’s journeys to have witnessed in real time: the inimitable Charly Goss.
If you didn’t listen to last week’s episode on Friend Pauses you can listen on Apple podcasts here and Spotify here.
Listen to my raw podcast recorded with Briana Johnson, amidst my moving boxes during my separation (now renamed to Dawnbreakers).
Listen to my episode about learning to trust my heart again after divorce on The Papaya Podcast.
The quote my ex-husband sent me was from “How Should A Person Be?” by Sheila Heti. Visit her site here.
Be sure to check out Pamela Anderson’s new documentary “Pamela, A Love Story” on Netflix, and her memoir “Love, Pamela”
And if you don’t already follow Charly Goss and her amazing team, I highly recommend. Follow Charly’s witty, stylish, sassy, vulnerable self on instagram, as well as her styling team’s instagram.
And lastly, if you don’t already follow me on instagram you can do so @findingsparklechasinglight and @nicolebreanne. Thanks so much! Don’t forget to rate and leave a review - it means the world!
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00:00 This is Finding Sparkle Chasing Light and I’m your host Nicole Breanne. (Music interlude) Hi everyone, welcome back! I hope you’re all having a lovely week. In today’s episode I want to talk a little bit more about friendships and especially vulnerability, which, in my opinion, is part of the secret sauce to building deep, and intimate friendships.
00:33 Just a little content warning here because I want to be as considerate as possible: this episode does touch on divorce, alcohol, someone who has cancer, and Pamela Anderson’s sex tape.
00:49 I had such a wonderful weekend. I actually saw two of my best friends on Saturday which was so good for my soul. One of them, Bri, who’s literally my heart in another body moved to London, Ontario in the pandemic and the other, Robyn, who’s my empathetic social justice warrior in the best way possible, just recently moved back to Toronto so the three we were due for a visit. We decided to meet in the middle, which brought us to Kitchener, Ontario. And our only goals were to be comfortable, not be rushed and have some food so we met at the local Jack Astors. Now, if you haven't been to Jack Astors, they have that kraft paper on each table with a set of crayons normally for the children, but we use it to take notes. So one thing I love about Robyn is that every hang out we've ever had over the years she comes with Post-it notes, because we don't get to see each other often and we don't want to miss anything.
01:51 But since Jack Astors has kraft paper, we were able to write individual lists for each person featuring each topic we wanted to talk about. For example, mental health, upcoming travel, careers, Remy, relationships, new apartment, physical health and injuries. Honestly, no topic was left untouched and not only was it super beneficial because we're a bunch of Chatty Cathy's and we easily could've had a bunch of tangents that took us off course BUT we also really made our server’s day, which is always one of our secret goals everywhere we go. We LOVE to be sparkly and make people around us happy. He could not believe our notes, and how deep our friendship was and just the smile Bri and Robyn brought to his face made me so happy because that they made him feel special, but also happy that I have friends in my life who go out of their way to make everyone feel amazing. So that was a highlight of my weekend and I can't wait to see both of them hopefully soon but until then there's always our group chat. I hope you have a group chat because group chats are the best!
03:08 But speaking of friendships, thank you so much for all of your kind words on last week’s episode about Friend Pauses. If you haven’t listened, a friend pause is my new gentler term for a break in a friendship, because the word “friend breakup” sounded too harsh and finite to me.….Anyway, that episode had more messages than anything I have probably ever done in my life, aside from may be when I talked about my divorce on the Papaya podcast. And I don't say this to brag about being popular because, well, we all know I'm popular I don't need to brag. Ha! totally kidding but really the messages weren't generally about me anyway they were mostly about people going through similar feelings, and being grateful that I was able to name a feeling or experience they too are having or have had in the past and I simultaneously felt immense gratitude for every message I received, quickly followed by a pang of sadness knowing another person was experiencing the heartache and grief, and sometimes loneliness that comes with friendships and friend pauses and endings.
04:23 One of the most beautiful messages - and yes there were many - came from a close friend, whom I once had a pause of at least a year or so back in the day. We were young and needed to grow up individually a little bit, but the way it happened was painful, and I felt a bit responsible. But she listened to my episode and sent me a really kind message. Part of it says: “The stakes were not as high for the two of us, but I'm sure you remember we had our own friendship. Pause back in the day. If it's of any comfort, I always had love for you throughout that time. Even if we had taken space from each other. I dare say that's the same in your current situation I hope you guys will come out of this pause, better and stronger. Whether that is as individuals or as a new kind of friendship.”
05:06 That message brought instant tears to my eyes, not just for myself, but especially when I thought about the many hurting messages I’d received. If you are listening, and you are in the midst of a confusing friend pause I hope you know that even if your friend has not verbally said this: I can almost assure you they have love for you in their heart. Yes, even if you hurt them at some point, and yes, even if they hurt you at some point. You can still have love for each other. Sometimes it’s hard to grow individually when you’ve been so connected to each other, sometimes you’ve just grown “up” at different paces, taken different paths, sometimes jealousy, envy, hurt creep in and make it hard to see past things. Sometimes we are own obstacles. Sometimes it has nothing to do with you. Sometimes it ends up finding a way back, and sometimes it doesn’t. And it’s okay. But I hope knowing that the story you’re imagining in your head for how they feel about you is probably worse than the truth. It doesn’t make it easy, but I hope that lifts the heaviness just a little bit.
06:20 I did notice one common question that seemed to pop up in many messages that I pondered it enough to want to talk about here: Nicole, how the heck are you able to be so vulnerable? And I had to chuckle because… RIGHT? I ask myself the same thing all the time. You mean other people don’t generally air their intimate experiences and emotions on public display in podcasts? Strange…..But in all seriousness, it had me wondering why vulnerability comes a bit easier to me than it does for others. And honestly, I think it's because I didn't drink from about age 19 to 27. I didn't have one sip of alcohol or any type of drug. That meant going through all of university, dating, and the awkwardness of that, getting married, learning to be social in my twenties, it was all done completely sober. I didn't really think about it much at the time, but looking back all my friendships were built on great conversation and opening up. And drinking was never really part of it. Even my friends who like to drink or party generally kept our friendship separate from that and we also focussed on quality time and usually lots of good food. Ha ha. That’s not to say you can’t be vulnerable or have great conversations AND drink - I’m just saying being sober from 19-27 while you’re also figuring out who you are is a definitely a test in vulnerability.
07:49 One thing that was interesting was that even though I had had a few drinks by the time I went through my divorce. It was such a minimal part of my life that I never turned to it when processing that grief. In fact, even through that whole experience, I focussed so much on external processing, like talking to a friend, talking to another friend, talking to family, talking to myself, my dog, my therapist. There was just a lot of talking, I think you get the point. And I suppose the several years of at-times sober awkwardness (and I don’t say that being sober = being awkward, I just think I’m awkward in general sometimes) but it helped me learn to be comfortable with who I am or at least EMBRACE who I am.
08:35 Now the main reason I didn’t drink was just that I don’t like things altering my brain! And so, while I partied a little bit at 18, I didn’t really like it. And so I kind of just stopped, and it stuck and suddenly it had been a year, two years, a wedding (why ex also didn’t drink but our guests did), and suddenly seven years. That, and the other reason being that I had a lot of LDS or Mormon friends. Growing up in Calgary, there are quite a few Mormon families in the area I grew up and I got especially close with some of them in high school, and continued after I moved back from LA. So when I was 18 I lived in LA for a little bit and when I came back to Calgary I was really hanging out with these amazing friends. And I already didn’t love drinking, but I found it hard to socialize without drinking when all our high school friends were freshly turning 18 (the legal drinking age in Alberta) and just having fun, which I was so glad they were doing!
09:40 Things I love about my Mormon friends: - great heart to hearts. I don’t know if it’s just that they talk about different topics at church and are raised being open to talk about things or if I just happen to score some amazing pals who were open, but I always appreciated their vulnerability. As well, doing fun things that didn’t involve drinking! We’d still go dancing or even host dances at their, but we just didn’t drink. We’d have movie nights, watch weekly shows together, game nights, go for dinner. It was just so fun. Also, admittedly, I was very shy sexually (HAHA) and hadn’t done much yet so I was very grateful to know that I didn’t have to worry about that aspect because many Mormons save themselves for marriage. We could just have fun without worrying about getting drunk, regretting anything, or me stressing out about sex, because it was just off the table! Plus, they were just lovely people and I still love them!
10:39 Being their friend and having deeper conversations allowed me to slowly start opening up and embracing who I was, but it wasn’t until my divorce that I realllllllllly had to figure myself out. For so many years I kept SO much of my life private. I never wanted to talk about my struggling marriage, reveal something embarrassing about myself, never wanted to ruffle any feathers, or have anyone disagree with me, but slowly that changed! And when I was hit with the shock of my ex-husband leaving me and processing his affair I really hit my own personal rock-bottom. I knew for the first time in my life I needed to ask for help, and I just felt so stripped naked that I just couldn’t hide anymore. I was really relying on the goodness and care from my friends and family to get me through. And I could no longer hide my broken marriage, because I was no longer in the marriage. I had to talk about it - I had to be vulnerable.
11:38 Something I didn’t expect during that time was that my almost-forced vulnerability would lead to the strongest friendship bonds I had ever had. I learned the power of true vulnerability and that it takes courage to put ourselves out there, and is the opposite of weakness. And I would say learning to be vulnerable changed the trajectory of my entire life.
12:05 I’ll never forget while my ex and I were separating he knew I had recorded a podcast - it was called the Life Beats Podcast by Briana Johnson and it was the second podcast I’d ever been on , the first was my public failure story oftrying to work for Ellen Degeneres. Anyway, I recorded this divorce podcast from my bedroom I shared with my ex, surrounded by boxes as I finally prepped to move out to a new place of my own. I was IN the THICK of it. Anyway, somehow my ex found out about the podcast and while he admittedly did not listen, he did send me a quote from a book he was reading by Sheila Heti, called “How Should a Person Be?” that says:
“Most people live their entire lives with their clothes on, and even if they wanted to, couldn't take them off. Then there are those who cannot put them on. They are the ones who live their lives not just as people but as examples of people. They are destined to expose every part of themselves, so the rest of us can know what it means to be a human. Most people lead their private lives. They have been given a natural modesty that feels to them like morality, but it's not -- it's luck. They shake their heads at the people with their clothes off rather than learning about human life from their example, but they are wrong to act so superior. Some of us have to be naked, so the rest can be exempted by fate.”
13:30 I remember reading that and tearing up. I cry a lot! A lot of people didn’t understand why I would go on a podcast deep in the raw parts of a painful divorce. And actually she reposted that episode recently while she was in a bit of a hiatus, and I’m so tempted to listen to it, but I’m not sure I’m even ready to go back to that time and listen to just how raw I was when I recorded it. "But suddenly reading that I felt so seen. There was an explanation to my need to bare it all - I was born to expose every part of myself so the rest of you can know what it means to be human. And if you haven’t read any of Sheila Heti’s books, I recommend both “How Should a Person Be?” And Motherhood.
14:19 Continuing this week’s theme of vulnerability into this segment called Pop of Culture, which is exactly that: a pop of culture. I watched “Pamela, A Love Story” when it was released on Tuesday and wow. If you’re not familiar, it’s a new Netflix documentary about Pamela Anderson’s life and story, as told by her. The director Ryan White said he jumped on a zoom call with her and was so surprised by The Pamela on his zoom screen being so different than his perceived notion of her and he knew that if he could capture that surprise and essence in the film he knew it would be amazing. And it was SO GOOD.
14:59 I had no idea that Pamela was such an archivist of herself. She has footage from basically her whole life. And much of the film is made of her watching the DVD’s and VHS footage of her life. It’s so raw and intimate, and really beautiful. I obviously knew about her stolen sex tape, and how she never made a penny off it, despite others making millions, but so much of her story is so heartbreaking. So many people taking advantage of her, and so many people only seeing her a sex symbol and exploiting that. She had different aspirations of herself that never really got to happen as her career sort of fizzled and she also has such a kind heart, and is so protective of her family, especially her two sons - who evidently are SO protective of her now, too. Both of them appear in the documentary, and one of them is one of the producers. Anyway, I don’t want to give it ALL away, because I think you should watch it for yourself. But, know that you’ll feel a sense of vulnerability and softness watching Pamela’s unguardedness and calm, loving nature. It was such a beautiful film, and I’m obsessed with her two sons, Brandon and Dylan and how proud they are of her for this film and her new book release. Yes, she ALSO has a new memoir about taking back the narrative of her life called “Love, Pamela” and I just downloaded it on Audible, so I can’t wait to listen. I didn’t really have feelings about her either way, until I learned more about the truth of her story, but I’m proudly a fully converted Pamela Anderson fan now. I hope you will be, too!
16:45 This is one of my all-time favourite segments called Late to the Party, where I share someone or some thing I absolutely love that I am either late to the party on knowing about or you might be. Because let’s be real, I’m often the last to know about things so I really started this segment for myself. Today, I wanted to talk about Charly Goss, a fashion stylist, a Scorpio goddess, a mama, a badass business woman, a super generous boss, a Cancer survivor, current cancer fighter, community builder and so much more. The reason I wanted to feature her today is because of her vulnerability. Charly is currently battling cancer for her third time, and vulnerably shares some of her appointments, struggles, and hospital stays but somehow keeping her humour and grit through it all. But I don’t want to focus too much on her cancer, because that’s an obvious point of vulnerability, but also she’s just so much more than that!
17:45 I will, however, touch on two parts from the C word where earlier in her journey Charly had her tongue removed - replacing it with a skin graft from her arm, which is wild to me! Without any muscles or the usual magic a functional tongue has to offer, she’s managed to navigate learning how to eat certain foods, not choke while doing so, and speak. I didn’t really think about how fascinating my tongue was before this, but damn I should be more grateful for it. But, obviously, only being able to eat certain foods - pretty bland taste and texture-wise, has kept her quite thin and invited a lot of comments from followers and clients. Charly has vulnerably shared this part of her story on social media to serve as a reminder to NEVER comment on someone’s body because you have no idea why they may look that way, or what points of contention or triggers it may bring up for them. As well, without a proper tongue, her speech is slightly different and I just think she’s so badass putting herself out there in the public eye speaking on instagram stories to 128 000 people (I’m sure not all of whom are always kind), going on podcasts, meeting with clients. And Charly doesn’t make a big deal about any of these things - she’s got this natural “cool factor” and seems to just take everything in stride. But I think she’s amazing!
19:28 I first followed Charly a few years ago when she only had a few thousand followers on instagram! Hard to believe she was ever a lil micro influencer now that she has 128k followers and a fashion styling empire but it’s true - and her story has been one of my favourites to witness in real time. So, after her second battle with cancer, Charly had two perfect little babies, and knew she needed to finally take the plunge and go for it with her styling career. The only thing stopping her in the past was her confidence - which honestly blows my mind because she’s the coolest human - but even cool humans have trouble ‘going for it.’ But she did it, she went for it, and she knew Instagram would be the place to do it. Throughout 2020 Charly was hustling on instagram. She was popping out instagram reels the way the rest of the world was popping out Sourdough. With every post she’d humbly and vulnerably ask her followers to SHARE - hit that airplane, I’d remember she’d say. Hit that airplane and share. Because her goal was to make it to the elusive 10k followers. I tried to share a few, and bought one of her original style guides from back then - probably worth something on eBay now HAHA. Along with her style reels she was posting style trends, and tips in her instagram stories almost constantly. I mean, I don’t think she even slept much. Her trademarked “Cool Not Cool” is an instagram series with her own sassy personal brand of tough love. Some people are offended by her blunt honesty, but I’m here for it! People need to take a chill pill - she’s talking about clothes. No need to get our knickers in a knot!
21:09 Anyway, Charly and her team are SO awesome and I’m rooting for her in everything she does. They have tons of different services to choose, from guides, to personal shopping, closet overhauls, interior design, and even a membership. If you’re late to the party on this one and want some epic fashion advice and links - for free on their instagram - you need to follow @charlygoss and @charlygossstyleinc on instagram. Don’t worry, all the links are in my show notes.
22:01 Well, that’s our show everyone. Thank you so much for listening and being here. My last vulnerable request is if you like this podcast, please head over to wherever you listen and leave a rating and a review if you can. As well, if an episode strikes a chord with you I’d be so grateful if you send to your friends or even share on your social media. Those gestures help get me to be the best friend in more ears! Be sure to follow me on social media @findingsparklechasinglight and @nicolebreanne. Thanks so much! And remember: you can only meet someone as deep as you’ve met yourself.